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Simple English definitions for legal terms

plain view doctrine

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A quick definition of plain view doctrine:

The plain view doctrine is a rule that allows police officers to take evidence of a crime without a warrant if they can see it clearly. This means that if an officer is in a place where they have a legal right to be and they see something that is evidence of a crime, they can take it without a warrant. However, if the officer did something illegal to get to that place, they cannot use the plain view doctrine. The officer does not have to accidentally find the evidence, they can look for it on purpose as long as they are in a legal place.

A more thorough explanation:

Plain view doctrine is a rule that allows police officers to seize evidence of a crime without a warrant when the evidence is clearly visible. This means that if an officer sees something illegal in plain sight, they can take it as evidence. It is an exception to the Fourth Amendment's right to be free from searches without a warrant.

For the plain view doctrine to apply, the officer must have a lawful right to access or observe the seized object. This means that if the officer violated any laws in arriving at the location or situation where they had access or sight to the object, then the plain view doctrine does not apply.

One example of the plain view doctrine is the case of Horton v. California. In this case, the officer had a warrant to enter a robber's home and seize property stolen through an armed robbery. The officer did not find the stolen goods but found the weapons that he suspected the robber used in the robbery in plain sight, and properly seized them under the plain view doctrine even though he did not have a warrant for the weapons.

Another example is the case of INS v. Delgado. Immigration enforcement officers entered a factory pursuant to consent and had consent-based encounters with the employees, which meant that they lawfully situated themselves. While there, they saw evidence of illegal activity in plain view and were able to seize it under the plain view doctrine.

Overall, the plain view doctrine allows officers to seize evidence without a warrant if it is in plain sight and they have a lawful right to access or observe it.

Plain Feel Doctrine | Plain-language law

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questioning whether i go to school for free at a lesser school or pay some out of pocket at a better name for the same degree at end of the day, the numbers don't lie
18:54
@DisillusionedHomelessWalnut: The way the curve works is a below-median student at Tennessee (curves to a 3.1, so B/B+) can end up with a better GPA than an above-average student at Elon (curves to a 2.67/B-minus), so the student from Tennessee will have a better transcript *and* get better jobs on average than someone with the same class rank at Elon
18:56
Your real alarm bell is Elon's curve (linked here, p. 70 https://eloncdn.blob.core.windows.net/eu3/sites/996/2019/07/2017-2018_Academic_Catalog-and-Student_Handbook.pdf) *requires* profs to give 20% of first-year students a C-minus or worse, when the school's bar for "satisfactory academic progress" is a C+ average
ooooffff. thanks. i mean, full ride is cool and all, but damn
18:59
The only scenario where a school does something like that (curve to a 2.67, dismiss students below 2.25) is when they're admitting a lot of students who may not pass the bar, then flunking people out mercilessly so the school can keep its accreditation (ABA requires 75% of grads to pass the bar within two years, can't fail the bar if the school doesn't let you graduate)
the dean told me "no students had their scholarships reduced in the past three years, and to my recollection only one scholarship in 19 years has been reduced when a student was in good standing"
yeah, i get that and appreciate you validating that point. i like to think it really wouldn't apply to me and assume it happens due to the lower standards of admissions they utilize, but is it (full ride) worth the risk? that's the fly in the ointment
just trying to weigh all angles, seems like just biting the bullet and paying the modest amount to UTK is a smarter decision
end of cycle is for the birds, but i'm playing the hand i was dealt :)
19:06
In general you are going to be better off at a school that wants its students to succeed. UTK seems to fit the description - they are not in any danger of losing their accreditation, don't need to force people out. Elon very much does not, if their bar passage drops 2% they'll be in violation of ABA requirements so they won't give students any leway
19:06
*leeway
i appreciate your insight, friend
manifestmoreadmissions
19:11
im too lazy to provide the same level of detail as JB but I agree UTK seems like a better bet to actually achieve your career goals and set yourself up for success. I would understand being conflicted if it were like UTK vs Belmont or a lower ranked school that isn't considered predatory but because it's Elon that makes it more clear to me
thank you
the counterpoint bouncing around my head is basically "if i'm worth a damn, as i think i am, i'll be just fine no matter what the curve is" but you folks are nudging me in the direction of logic and common sense
manifestmoreadmissions
19:18
plenty of the people who fall behind are worth a damn it's just that some schools are basically set up to screw people over
yeah. fall behind as in....miss homework? can't keep up with readings? something else?
kinda nervous coming in as an untraditional guy around KJD's, billy madison vibes over here
19:21
Re: costs, it's worth looking at costs all around, both schools cost (net tuition, $0 at Elon/$30K over 3 years if you're in-state at UTK) PLUS three years not earning money or advancing in your career, which is worth 6 figures if you make decent money now. $30K in tuition is a small share of total costs in this comparison
19:24
"Fall behind" in this context means law school curves are rigid, no matter how hard everyone studies half the class will be below-median, 25% in the bottom quarter, etc. It's not super predictable either, so a student above GPA or LSAT median could still end up bottom half or 1/4 of the class
gotcha. predatory in that instance is certainly appropriate
manifestmoreadmissions
19:32
i am not kjd but im glad jb cleared that up for you lmao
19:32
And assuming similar class rank, UTK grads tend to do better in public data. Top students at UTK have a shot at biglaw (pays $225K), top students at Elon end up at small/medium firms (worse pay). Average students at UTK can get jobs at small/medium firms, average students at Elon are on the bubble for any firm job at all. Below-average students at UTK have a shot at firm jobs or other work, below-average students at Elon might not get jobs (or pass the bar, or avoid academic dismissal). That's the major advantage of well-regarded schools - more upside, less downside
manifestmoreadmissions
19:32
but yeah just reiterating that you could be worth so many damns and still not do well because its set up for that
19:37
(This is ignoring public service/government jobs, because the stats there don't tell us much about the type of job - "super competitive Department of Justice job in DC making $90K" and "local government job earning $50K" both get lumped together under the "public service" label, but say v. different things about a school's job placement
really appreciate all the insight
manifestmoreadmissions
23:07
for those going to school in fall 24 when did you add your school to your linkedin profile
MightyUnableSphinx
23:13
add as soon as you get in! :)
MightyUnableSphinx
23:13
it's like a little micro celebration!
23:15
Anyone else here plan on practicing around PDX?
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